when i talk to business owners, i used to be maryland's business secretary, now i talk to business owners across america, and when they either want a start-up or expanted, i have the same conversation with them. i need that skilled work force that will enable me to grow my business or start my business and sustain my business. and that's why what we do at the department of labor so important because we invest in human capital, making sure we have the skills to compete for today's and tomorrow's jobs. and that is why you look at states that have a good educational infrastructure, and i think that makes a huge difference. liz: i know michigan, of course, michigan state,man u, but detroit? so they're doing something right. it's not, certainly, tax incentives because the city went bankrupt and then had to get out of that. >> well, i'm bullish on detroit because we spend a lot of time -- liz: we just had the ceo of shy knoll la, too, and he's very bullish. >> i have toured his facility, and it is a great facility. and i talk to people there and the remarkable spirit that they demonstrate there